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Iowa_Sawyer
Iowa_Sawyer's picture
Blade getting behind drive side wheel

I am working on fine tuning my HD36 to work better for me and I have found several solutions that have helped. I am running into a problem that I wondered if anyone else has had. I have the mill working pretty good now but I have one issue that has come up. When I am sawing the blade will get thrown off the wheels and end up behind the drive wheel. I think it is because the blade is getting dull and I may be pushing it off the rollers and it then slips behing the drive wheel. This is not  a huge issue except that it messes up the blade usually damaging a couple teeth. So does anyone have this trouble and if so have you found a solution to it.

. I switched to rollers from the ceramic guides (which for me were horrible) I so far love the roller guides, I came up with an idea that allows you the ability to put downward pressue on the rollers which was not there until I figured out this modification. I also had the throttle actuator go bad I don't blame Norwood for this and Trevor helped me figure out that it was bad, it kept blowing fuse when I shut the throttle down.

It is ridiculus that this thing failed this soon and it is an American made expensive unit. The replacement cost on it from Norwood was 475.00 so I searched for and found an alternative for that that so far is working really good.. 

This is my second Norwood I had a LM2000 and I am getting used to the HD36 its taken me awhile to get a few kinks worked out but I am glad I switched to the HD36.

 

r.garrison1
r.garrison1's picture

I had a problem with the rollers on my LM29 a year or so ago, and I found the problem that solved it. I wonder if you have the same issue.

I had accidentally pushed one of the rollers as I was rolling a log, so the guide mount was bent. After I straightened it back the problem went away.

Maybe put a straight edge across the tightened blade, from roller to roller, and see if the straight edge is the same distance from both wheels. If it is deflecting too much, then the blade is pushing hard on the roller. I'm not certain what it should be, but on mine, the guide is pretty close to flat with the wheels.

eddiemac
eddiemac's picture

Iowa_Sawyer, can you tell me what is better about the HD36 compared to the LM2000? As an owner of both, you qualify as an expert compared to the rest of us.

Iowa_Sawyer
Iowa_Sawyer's picture

Well from my point of view having had both I would say I like the LM2000 for its dependable easy to run sawing. I cut thousands of board feet with it and never had any issues except I replaced a roller bearing and a clutch. The only down side to the LM2000 is the loading and turning of logs its all manual and logs are heavy! That being said I cut some big logs on that mill and it never failed to do the job. It was a rock solid manual mill.

 I like the HD36 because it has hydraulics and I am getting at the point in life that you start having to cash all the checks that your body wrote in your youth! That being said there are several things I don't really care for on the HD36 (this is just me speaking from my use of it so far) I don't like the plastic guards on the saw I think they look cheap and the latches are not really my style. I do not like the ceramic guides, well I take that back, I loathed the ceramic guides. I switched to rollers like the LM2000 had and I am so much happier no constantly adjusting them, no sparks when you are cutting, 100% better in my opinion. I am getting used to the HD36 and once I worked out the guide issue and switched to 7 degree blades I am pretty happy with it. It is very nice that you can add features as you require them or as you have the money since those features are expensive. I have looked at the setworks option but it seems overpriced to me. I had the throttle actuator go out which I am a little ticked off about but that is not a Norwood issue that a Warner Linear issue. The cost of a replacement from Norwood is a Norwood issue but there are other options as well.

The one issue I struggle with is sometimes getting support from Norwood, I have worked with Trevor and he has been pretty helpful. It just seems that they are understaffed and  when you spend thousands of dollars on something I guess I just expected more. Its all about customer service and once you damage that it is very difficult to regain it back.

To be honest I was leaning more toward Timberking this time but the mill size was a factor so I went with Norwood as the mill is shorter and I had to have that in my application.

I guess to me the big question on something like this is would I buy a Norwood again, and I would answer that yes, I would I have had two and have no regrets about either.

just my opinion tho your mileage may vary!

eddiemac
eddiemac's picture

Thanks for your assessment. My experience with the LM2000 mirrors yours  -   it's a reliable machine (and probably all I'll ever need). The big logs take a whole lot of time and patience to handle, but I've never had to give up on any of them that would fit on the saw (my tractor/loader makes the heaviest lifting possible).  From my distant viewpoint, the ceramic guides and plastic guards were a design mistake. I would be happy to forgo having to brush debris off the wide bunks though.

Bill
Bill's picture

Good report on the HD 36 . I've sawen thousands of bf on the LM2000 only thing I've replaced is a bearing in a roller guide a different tensioner & one of the lift cables wore out.. Made the mistake of buying and trying the ceramics they work terrible didn't stay adjusted sent sparks & one of the ceramics came with a crack in it and broke right away Norwood told me I tightened it to much even though I had a pic. of it right out of the package. After a few years I exchanged lead roller guide with the other one because the shoulder on it was wearing making it easier for the blade to jump over it no problems since. Every thing on the mill works great I've only adjusted the tracking once in over ten years.

Post Oakie
Post Oakie's picture

"When I am sawing the blade will get thrown off the wheels and end up behind the drive wheel."

How are you tensioning the blade?  I've helped a couple of sawyers get started on the HD36 sawmill, and most have had the blade way too loose.  Does it throw the blade while you are cutting, at full throttle with no load, or at random times?  Other than that, you might check the tracking by tensioning the blade, then turning the bandwheel by hand for a dozen or so revolutions and whatch where the blade rides on the bandwheels.  I know what you mean about the plastic guards.  On top of that, the plastic will soften and warp in the summer.  I had to put a heat gun on mine and straighten it out.

Iowa_Sawyer
Iowa_Sawyer's picture

The band comes off under sawing conditions when running at full speed. I tensioned the blade by going all the way and then backing off 1 turn. I wish they had some sort of tension gauge built into it. Tracking seems to be good I have the blade probably a 1/16 to an 1/8 of the gullet visible on the front of the wheel. I think what is happening is the blade gets dull and somehow is jumping over the flange on the drive side roller bearing and then since there seems to be extra space between the cover and the drive side wheel it is getting in behind that. The blade coming offf is no big deal my old mill would do that to if you ran the blade to long. The problem that is at issue is that the blade gets behing that drive wheel and the cover and before the mill can stop it beats the crap outta the blade teeth, which I think is ruining the blades.

The hardest part is knowing when the blade is dull enough to change to soon and you are not gettinbg the most bang for your blade buck. To late and you are damaging the blade which if it is unable to be resharpened by Woodmizer I am having to replace blades.

I am curious if anyone who has an HD36 can measure the gap between the back of the drive side wheel and the plastic cover on the drive side at the top of the wheel.

 

eddiemac
eddiemac's picture

I've had the blade jump off on my LM2000, but only when trying to push a dull blade too hard. The specification in the manual says to adjust the roller blade guides forward "until the flange almost touches the back of the blade (1 1/6" clearance)".  After sharpening a blade several times, I've noticed some want to ride a little forward of that measurement, so I've allowed that without any problems. A blade should be changed when it is no longer sharp. To tell, touch your fingertip to the tip of a tooth and compare to one on a sharpened blade. If there is much difference, it's time to change. That can be painful if you have to send them off to be sharpened, but it is practical. Timberwolf's distributor says: "Always change your blade while it is still relatively sharp. Run the blade for 2 to 3 hours max."  I bought sharpening and setting equipment early on, and I'm glad I did.

r.garrison1
r.garrison1's picture

Two things I have noticed on my LM29 when the blade is getting dull.

  • The saw gets harder to push
  • The engine bogs when I try and keep the typical cut speed, for the same width of log.

Note it also is associated with the cut and type of log. When I am cutting a log, the first cut or two is almost skimming the edge, to get a straight edge for the first usable board. If that cut is fairly easy, then when I am cutting something deeper (like a 8" or 10" width cut), the saw shouldn't feel like I'm trying to make a 20" cut.

Timeout
Timeout's picture

A dull blade sounds different in the cut. I have an HD36. Ceramic guides. Took a while to get adjusted. When adjusted right , the blade will spin freely.  When blade gets dull it will start to hit the back guide and make a different sound. I touch up blade with a belt sander and it is back to sawing. I put 4.5 turns on tension handle after it just touches the washer on top of the spring. Back off tensioner when done sawing. Started quarter and riff sawing red oak today. Cuts like butter with a sharp blade.

eddiemac
eddiemac's picture

How do you touch up with a belt sander?  What kind of belt sander?

Timeout
Timeout's picture

After running my new sawmill for awhile, I came to the conclusion there has to be an easier way to extend the life of a blade. I went online and watched a number of videos on how to sharpen a band saw blade without purchasing the expensive sharpener. Most used dremel tools or grinding wheels. I finally came across one where a small hand held belt sander was used. You leave the blade on the mill under tension. Find the weld point and start from there. Hold the sander 90 degrees to blade and just touch the backside of each tooth. When you get back to weld point you are done. Takes a few minutes and back to sawing. 

 

eddiemac
eddiemac's picture

The dominant theory is that you have to grind the gullet as well as the back of the blade. If you only grind the back, the teeth will get progressively shorter and the gullet smaller, the hook angle will decrease, and cracks may develop in the gullet leading to breakage.  What you are doing will work for awhile and may be useful between standard sharpenings, but will probably lead to shortened band life.  That's my guess anyway; I'm all for creative experimentation.

Timeout
Timeout's picture

I only do the belt sander touch up to keep the blade on the mill. I usually end up changing it after hitting metal in a log, or the cut gets wavy. I have run them until they broke, but now trying to avoid that. I am not a production sawyer, just something to do in my semi-retirement. The choice was an RV or a sawmill. I chose the sawmill, and glad I did.

RW Moore
RW Moore's picture

I checked the distance  from the back of the drive wheel to the face of the rear guard on my HD36.  The measurement varies from 3/4" to 1-1/8" primarily due to the sloppy fit of the plastic guards.  I have attached several short bungee chords from the guard to the carriage body to (try) to prevent the blade from scoring the back of the guard.  As Post Oakie mentioned the warm weather definitely affects the plastic guard stiffness.

RW Moore

r.garrison1
r.garrison1's picture

Interesting that you use a belt sander to sharpen the blades. I have a real easy resource to sharpen, and too many side tasks to want to take one more, so I simply take them to be sharpened. However, it seems logical that with a handful of folks that can probably do a passable job of sharpening a chain saw, a band saw should be also within the skill set.

I've wondered if I could take my chain file to a tensioned blade, and give it a swipe or two every time I take a break. That would probably do a fair job of keeping the blade lasting longer.